Bounty: ShoWest 2008 Reports

Lucas was at something called ShoWest. I know nothing about it, except that it seemed to be Porno for Journos, and geek porn for me.

We have, not one, but *three* separate instances of Lucas talking about the EU and how it fits (and doesn't).

Let's roll with it as it came to me:

Many hours ago, I received notice of a blog post to a very old thread. In it, a fellow called HellBlade8 (aka Mith_the_Godling, a(possibly)ka Mith from SpaceBattles.com) related a Lucas quote I'd not heard of before:

"Heh, just read yet another comment by George four days ago about Star Wars being non-canon.

Funny stuff:

Do you think you'd have other people continue the Star Wars saga past Episode VI or turn some of the other material into films?

But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books. But there's three worlds: There's my world that I made up, there's the licensing world that's the books, the comics, all that kind of stuff, the games, which is their world, and then there's the fans' world, which is also very rich in imagination, but they don't always mesh. All I'm in charge of is my world. I can't be in charge of those other people's world, because I can't keep up with it."

I immediately applied Google-fu, at which point I found the following:

http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars/news/news20080317.html

And yes, the quote was the same. Specifically:

"Do you think you'd have other people continue the Star Wars saga past Episode VI or turn some of the other material into films?

But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books. But there's three worlds: There's my world that I made up, there's the licensing world that's the books, the comics, all that kind of stuff, the games, which is their world, and then there's the fans' world, which is also very rich in imagination, but they don't always mesh. All I'm in charge of is my world. I can't be in charge of those other people's world, because I can't keep up with it."

Reading further, we find a link to the "entire interview" at ComingSoon.net (specifically here). Besides offering a bit of context insofar as where the question came from and the overall topic, there's not much new . . . the question and answer are as you see them, with the context pretty much obvious.

A while later, while looking up reactions, I happened upon something else . . . an entirely different interview which happened to touch on the same topic tangentially, but is interesting for his word use:

"Where is the live-action one going to fit into the overall Star Wars narrative?
It's completely separate. This one has all of the characters that everybody knows — everybody from Yoda to Anakin to Mace Windu to Obi-Wan — everybody's there. The live-action has nobody there, because it's after Episode III, so everybody's dead, basically, or hiding somewhere. You hear about the Emperor, just like you do in Episode IV, but it's mostly about a whole different world. I mean, there are a million stories in the big city — you've only seen one of them. [Laughs]

Yeah, but I guess there is stuff that you could imagine coming in between parts III and IV — for example, we never saw a young Han Solo.
No, well, this has nothing to do with those series. Some of the characters from the features find their way in there, so it's not completely divorced. It's as if we just went down the street and told a different story. You know, we were doing, I don't know, 24, and now we're going to move down the street here and do The Wire. Same thing, it's just different people doing the same thing in the same city.

With the same Emperor.
Yeah.

And the same rules.
Yeah, all the same rules, all the same places, all the same stuff, and a lot of the same species. So it's a familiar world, it's just that you're seeing a completely different side of it."

And as if that weren't enough, several hours after that I find a video of an interview with Lucas. This was no ordinary interviewer, though . . . he was a former Star Wars fan whose interest had been renewed by talk of the TV shows. Thus, we get to see Lucas react to being asked a question in which the word "canon" appears. As the interviewer, "Frosty" from this Collider.com story, sets the mood:

"When I finally got the opportunity to speak with George, the only thing I wanted to know was about the live-action show. But since he was there to promote the new “Clone Wars” animated movie, I decided that I’d have to focus on the animated movie no matter what. I was also told that I’d only get a question or two with George…so I had to make it count. So for my second question I asked him a something to try and confirm part of my story….the part where I said the new live-action and animated series would be considered official “Star Wars.”

Of course he didn’t give me a direct yes or no answer, but George did say what appeared to be a yes. Needless to say, if I’d gotten ten minutes with him, I would’ve hit him with everything I knew and then I would’ve been ejected rather quickly. Actually, it’s probably good they only gave me a few minutes."

Here's the transcript . . . once again all-too-faithfully executed by yours truly . . . of the brief interview:

"A lot of people have been talking about online that the new Clone Wars cartoon and the new live-action show are actually going to be considered official canon of the Star Wars universe, what, uh, real stuff. Is that true?

Well, there's, the-, we say, we say that there's, there's three pillars of Star Wars. One is, uh, the features and the, and the films, and what I do, that comes from me. And then there's the, the licensing which are the books and the comics and the things which come from a bunch of other people, and then there's the fans, who make up their own stories and have/create their own Star Wars world. So those three versions of Star Wars are all out there and they don't always mesh but they always feed on each other."

Whew!

Oh but wait, we're not done, as there are some hearsay articles posted as well:

From March 14, we have this snippet from an E!Online article about ShoWest (also available here):

"Lucas is also supervising all scripts for both series, since they are considered part of the official canon and must adhere to the existing mythology.

After all, those fanboys and girls can be awfully picky."

The Collider.com story has also gotten some play at IGN, with the following commentary:

"George Lucas is reportedly very involved in both new series, and is said to be going over all the scripts and giving notes. Collider says that within Lucasfilm both new series are considered official Star Wars canon, unlike the majority of "Expanded Universe" stories. One way that will be reflected is in the portrayal of Jedi, who will not be as unstoppable and superheroic (in terms of abilities) as they were portrayed in the earlier Clone Wars shorts, but more in line with their powerful but far from invulnerable portrayal in the films."

We also get another look at the same themes from the ComingSoon quote . . . it's unclear if this is merely what we might call 'journalistic variation', or a separate interview:

"We also asked him about the current state of play on the long-planned live-action show, set to expand the Star Wars universe further. He was evasive on details, but he would say: "The live action show doesn't have any of the characters from the movies. It takes place at the same time, between episodes three and four, but it doesn't have anything to do with the Skywalkers. You kind of hear about the Emperor, and it takes place in that world, but it's like you have the TV show 24 and the TV show The Wire; they're in the same place but they're two completely different things." When we tried to push him on characters, he'd only say: "Well, we're still writing it, so I can't give anything away.""

That looks like a rather condensed version of the ComingSoon quotes, but we can't be 100% sure.

That's a SWARM of quotes. Let's recap:

1. ComingSoon: "no story past Episode VI", "three worlds", "don't always mesh"
2. EW: "completely separate", "whole different world", "familiar world", "different side of it"
3. Collider: "three pillars", "three versions of Star Wars", "don't always mesh"
4. EmpireOnline: live-action "takes place in that world"

And there are the hearsay non-quotes from E!Online and IGN, both of which say the shows will be canon but the latter throwing in "unlike the majority" of the EU.

Now, let's throw out some brief analysis:

The Collider and ComingSoon quotes are very direct. Lucas basically adds fandom to his earlier Cinescape 2002 comments in the ComingSoon quote, throwing another parallel universe into the mix.

The Collider quote is interesting for his replacement of "world" with "pillar". "Pillar", in the metaphorical sense, generally implies that all must be present for the full effect . . . e.g. pillars of faith, pillars of character, et cetera.

It can also be used for a similar but slightly different purposes, such as the "Five Pillars of Islam", the "Four Pillars of Investing", "Five Pillars of Social Media Marketing", et cetera. The Islamic version is basically a list of duties to be performed, a sort of rulebook for a faith maintenance program. The investing thing is similar in that it is the rulebook for a portfolio maintenance program.

The marketing one is interesting, in that it reminded me of the deeper meaning of the pillars of faith, character, et cetera. Pillars of that nature are attempts to describe fundamentals.

My reading of Lucas, then, is that he is describing the three fundamental types or areas of Star Wars lore. This is supported by his additional use of the idea of three Star Wars "versions", which don't necessarily "mesh" but do "feed" on each other.

Cases in point . . .

- Lucas borrowed a blue Jedi hottie from the comics, which (unlike the novels) he reads according to reports.
- Licensing brought in a fan researcher to write the text of two of the Incredible Cross-Sections youth books, and that fan consulted with other fans in the writing of it.
- Licensing's official continuity policy (OCP) for its materials includes reference to the films, which were of course the genesis and basis for the EU. But of course, Licensing has no control over the films.

All in all, then, the quotes rather excellently continue the traditions that Lucas has established insofar as treatment of and statements on the EU and how it fits into his movie lore (or doesn't, as the case may be).

The only possible disappointment is that he did not make use of the old "parallel universe" terminology, but that has often associated with "two universes" in his words, so it's easy to see how his additional consideration of fan material would make such a phrasing seem clunky. The same concept has been expressed, but without that particular terminology.

As for the comments on the TV shows, I'm highly entertained that the constant quote contradictions are still occurring. For instance, EmpireOnline suggests the live-action show takes place in the same world as the films, whereas the Entertainment Weekly article seems to have Lucas saying it both is and isn't in the world.

The trick, I think, comes with the question. The question is about how the live-action show will fit in the "overall Star Wars narrative". While the temptation for the canon-happy would be to take his answer of it being "separate" and take it to mean it won't be canon, I would argue that he's saying the reverse . . . it's still in his Star Wars universe and not some parallel one, but it is simply elsewhere.

Perhaps the best example of this would be the HBO TV show "The Wire", which Lucas references somewhat obliquely. In that series, each season featured different facets of Baltimore, with varying degrees of character crossover between seasons. One season was cops vs. drug pushers, another focused on a school, and another focused on a newspaper newsroom. Same universe, different pieces.

The only negative part will be that he used the phrase "whole different world" to describe it. While obviously metaphorical (e.g. the different worlds of Wall Street and Main Street), I can already hear some EU-philes trying to spin this use of "world" and reimagine all the others to mean the EU is in the same universe, and not a parallel one.

But oh well. These are the same folks who always refuse to accept Lucas for what he says, so one shouldn't ever expect that to change.

Lucas: "Screw the EU!"
EU-Phile: "See? Lucas loves the Expanded Universe so much and considers it such a part of his universe that he wants to physically mate with it! Ooh, no wait, he was just talking about 'production issues' or 'media' . . . meaning he made wild, passionate, animalistic love to Sue Rostoni and Karen Traviss on top of assorted novels, games, and comic books! I bet Curtis Saxton even calculated whether the ceiling fan would hold!"
Me: (twitch, puke)